Discussion:
USAID and the Cuban Youth
(too old to reply)
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-05 10:44:35 UTC
Permalink
ZunZuneo, USAID and How the U.S. Lost the Confidence of the Cuban People

A recent article by the Associated Press brought to light an intricate cover
operation by the U.S. Agency of International Development (USAID) in Cuba.
With the help of mobile and technological contractors, bank accounts in the
Cayman Islands and computer and social media whizzes, USAID developed a
Twitter-like communication style in the island called "ZunZuneo." The
service allowed Cubans to send text messages, have followers and share
thoughts about soccer, music and hurricane updates through their mobile
phones, and participate in a mobile community that evaded the government's
restrictions over the Internet. Pretty much all the things we do on the
internet right now.

The main objective of ZunZuneo, however, was to promote, through text
messages, a strong political motivation to change the current Cuban
government or, as USAID called it, "renegotiate the balance of power between
the state and society."

The ZunZuneo operation will create three prominent outcomes in Cuba.

1. Cuba recoils

ZunZuneo is a déjà vu to the CIA's Operation Mongoose in the 1960s.
Authorized by President John F. Kennedy, Operation Mongoose aimed to ignite
the revolutionary spark in Cuba necessary to topple the communist regime and
flush Fidel Castro out of the island. The operation failed, wasted millions
of dollars, and exposed the eerie desire of American policymakers to get rid
of the Castro revolution.

Operation Mongoose did succeed in making Cuba citizens more wary of the
U.S., and fueled hours of political speeches by Fidel Castro.

ZunZuneo, although not as radical as Operation Mongoose, will impulse Raul
Castro to call on his defense to deter western offensive to his regime. It
may not make Cuba more secluded to what it already is, but it will certainly
hurt any advances by Cuban social entrepreneurs that are less preoccupied
with past communist ghosts than a more inclusive and interactive society.

2. Foreign investment? Oh, wait a second...

USAID's operation will have an indirect effect on the recently passed
foreign investment law. As Cuba aims to lure foreign investor to sectors
like agriculture, electronics, constructions and others, the government
might be more careful to grant foreign companies easy access to Cuban
resources. Tighter measures to assure there is no American involvement in
the island could potentially increase the risk of nationalization and
consequently scare away any potential foreign investor.

This might be potentially dangerous to a Cuban economy that is begging for
cash. Although the oil bonanza that Venezuela provides to the Castro
government (estimated to be$9.4 billion per year) is still flowing, recent
economic measures imposed by Nicolas Maduro, as well as political turmoil in
the allied country can make the Cuban future more ominous.

3. No resources for entrepreneurs

In 2010 Raul Castro introduced new private enterprise laws that have helped
to produce a healthy growth rate on small entrepreneurial ventures in Cuba.
From tourism to restaurants to cinemas, Cubans have savored the advantages
of freer business.

ZunZuneo followed along the entrepreneurial lines. It had a healthy
relationship with the Cuban youth that saw the site as a success history in
a country that denied free access to press and the Internet. For instance,
on September, 2009, the site got around 100,000 replies to a question
related to the "Peace without Borders" concert organized by Colombian
singer, Juanes.

My guess is that, now that is it has been proved that USAID and other
contractors were behind ZunZuneo, the entrepreneurial spirit of the Cuban
society will change. Cubans might see technological advances as irrelevant
to the progress of society, as well as be more careful about creating new
information tools that might anger the government. This change will mean
more dependency to regular, not so society-changing ventures such as tourism
and restaurants, and hence delay the search for more access to information
that could yield a more democratic society.

Kudos to USAID for thinking outside the box and trying to solve this 20th
century problem with 21st century technologies. Nonetheless, the agency
failed too soon and too publicly in a topic as hotly debated as Cuba.

My guess is that USAID will see more vigorously scrutiny to its resources
and programmatic activities.

Follow Victor Salcedo on Twitter: www.twitter.com/OdeclasV
Cubaverdad
2014-04-05 12:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
ZunZuneo, USAID
40,000 Cuban youth liked it. The service was discontinued because there
was no funding.
Lots of Cubans miss it.
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-06 11:02:14 UTC
Permalink
Documents show the U.S. government planned to build a subscriber base
through "non-controversial content": news messages on soccer, music, and
hurricane updates. Later when the network reached a critical mass of
subscribers, perhaps hundreds of thousands, operators would introduce
political content aimed at inspiring Cubans to organize "smart mobs" — mass
gatherings called at a moment's notice that might trigger a Cuban Spring,
or, as one USAID document put it, "renegotiate the balance of power between
the state and society."
At its peak, the project drew in more than 40,000 Cubans to share news and
exchange opinions. But its subscribers were never aware it was created by
the U.S. government, or that American contractors were gathering their
private data in the hope that it might be used for political purposes.
"There will be absolutely no mention of United States government
involvement," according to a 2010 memo from Mobile Accord, one of the
project's contractors. "This is absolutely crucial for the long-term success
of the service and to ensure the success of the Mission."
The program's legality is unclear: U.S. law requires that any covert action
by a federal agency must have a presidential authorization. Officials at
USAID would not say who had approved the program or whether the White House
was aware of it. McSpedon, the most senior official named in the documents
obtained by the AP, is a mid-level manager who declined to comment.
USAID spokesman Matt Herrick said the agency is proud of its Cuba programs
and noted that congressional investigators reviewed them last year and found
them to be consistent with U.S. law.
"USAID is a development agency, not an intelligence agency, and we work all
over the world to help people exercise their fundamental rights and
freedoms, and give them access to tools to improve their lives and connect
with the outside world," he said.
"In the implementation," he added, "has the government taken steps to be
discreet in non-permissive environments? Of course. That's how you protect
the practitioners and the public. In hostile environments, we often take
steps to protect the partners we're working with on the ground. This is not
unique to Cuba."
But the ZunZuneo program muddies those claims, a sensitive issue for its
mission to promote democracy and deliver aid to the world's poor and
vulnerable — which requires the trust of foreign governments.
"On the face of it there are several aspects about this that are troubling,"
said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. and chairman of the Appropriations
Committee's State Department and foreign operations subcommittee.
"There is the risk to young, unsuspecting Cuban cellphone users who had no
idea this was a U.S. government-funded activity. There is the clandestine
nature of the program that was not disclosed to the appropriations
subcommittee with oversight responsibility. And there is the disturbing fact
that it apparently activated shortly after Alan Gross, a USAID subcontractor
who was sent to Cuba to help provide citizens access to the Internet, was
arrested."

Read more here:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/03/4036402/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter.html#storylink=cpy
Cubaverdad
2014-04-06 11:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Documents show the U.S. government planned to build a subscriber base
through "non-controversial content": news messages on soccer, music, and
hurricane updates. Later when the network reached a critical mass of
subscribers, perhaps hundreds of thousands, operators would introduce
political content
Cubans would speak of the scarcity and other "political" items anyway.
No need to introduce what Cuba considers "political" content. Even
complaining about the lack of potatoes is "political" in Cuba.
"Ya la papa es un problema político"
LOURDES GÓMEZ | Santiago de Cuba | 29 Mar 2014 - 10:19 am.

http://cubafood.blogspot.be/2014/03/ya-la-papa-es-un-problema-politico.html
Cubaverdad
2014-04-06 11:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Documents show the U.S. government planned to build a subscriber base
through "non-controversial content": news messages on soccer, music, and
hurricane updates. Later when the network reached a critical mass of
subscribers, perhaps hundreds of thousands, operators would introduce
political content aimed at inspiring Cubans to organize "smart mobs"
Publicado el sábado, 04.05.14

EDITORIAL


EN NUESTRA OPINION: Hambre de información


Varios jóvenes utilizan sus teléfonos celulares el jueves pasado en La

Habana. Una red social lanzada por EEUU funcionó en Cuba hasta el 2012.

ALEJANDRO ERNESTO / EFE


A partir del lunes 6 de abril, la sección Perspectiva publicará un

editorial seis días a la semana.


ZunZuneo, el medio social que la Agencia de Estados Unidos para el

Desarrollo Internacional (USAID) estableció en Cuba para fomentar la

comunicación entre los jóvenes y socavar el poder autoritario del

régimen, según la reciente información de Associated Press, desapareció

en el 2012. Para los 40,000 usuarios del servicio en la isla, dejó un
vacío.


En Washington la revelación ha causado una polémica, porque el programa

se hizo de una forma clandestina, sin revelar la participación del

gobierno norteamericano.


La USAID dijo que estaba orgullosa de promover los derechos humanos y

las libertades básicas en Cuba. Además, afirma que su labor se hizo en

concordancia con las leyes estadounidenses.


Esta controversia debe resolverse en Washington, después que se hagan

las investigaciones pertinentes. Este martes se realiza una audiencia en

el Congreso sobre el tema. Entretanto, debemos subrayar otra de las

razones por las que la USAID se siente orgullosa: tratar de que "la

información fluya con más libertad al pueblo cubano".


Los cubanos sufren un bloqueo informativo impuesto desde los primeros

años de la revolución. A la censura a libros, publicaciones y filmes se

agregó el control de la Internet, a la cual solo pueden conectarse

entidades y profesionales aprobados por el régimen. La mayoría de la

población no tiene acceso a la red mundial.


Cerrar las puertas a la información para crear un "hombre nuevo" libre

de desviacionismos ideológicos parece ser una de las prioridades de la

dictadura cubana. Pero el hambre de información es universal y los

cubanos, como cualquier habitante de este planeta, quieren saber lo que

pasa más allá de sus fronteras, enterarse de las últimas tendencias, de

las últimas noticias. Comunicarse.


La represión gubernamental al deseo humano de estar informado es un acto

de paranoia. La Guerra Fría terminó hace mucho tiempo y la rebelión

armada en la isla es un episodio del pasado que en el futuro previsible

no parece tener posibilidades de repetirse. Pero los gobernantes

actuales, los últimos y ya escasos sobrevivientes de la época de la

insurrección contra la dictadura de Batista, no han acabado de quitarse

el uniforme de la guerrilla. Temen que por las fisuras de un control

endeble tras un fatigoso medio siglo de vigilancia estatal férrea se

cuele una información que para ellos siempre es subversiva.


Como ven conspiraciones por todas partes, le temen a medios sociales que

los jóvenes del resto del mundo usan a diario. Continuarán cerrando las

puertas a la información, pero no podrán evitar la aparición de nuevas

alternativas para llenar el vacío que dejó ZunZuneo.


Source: EN NUESTRA OPINION: Hambre de información - Opinión -

ElNuevoHerald.com -

http://www.elnuevoherald.com/2014/04/05/1718449/en-nuestra-opinion-hambre-de-informacion.html
Post by The Razor's Edge
p://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/03/4036402/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter.html#storylink=cpy
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-06 11:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Dear Verdad;

Haven't been here for a while and see that you are busy as usual.

Subversive Content - US Government Spying and NSA data collection has been
going on for years. Sure I agree with you that Twitter would be a good thing
for the Cuban Youth if it was created for that purpose. However, it was
created for another and that can't be good. I wonder how many Cuban youths
were appaulled when they found out it was a US subversiion mission.

Keep up the good work.

Giovanni
Cubaverdad
2014-04-06 11:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Dear Verdad;
Haven't been here for a while and see that you are busy as usual.
Subversive Content
In Cuba saying you don't like the government, freedom of speech in all
countries, is subversive.
Allowing Cuba's people to communicate more freely is a good thing.
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-06 11:14:09 UTC
Permalink
You should read this article.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/03/4036402/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter.html
Cubaverdad
2014-04-06 11:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
You should read this article.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/03/4036402/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter.html
Have done so.
Maybe you don't know how many Cubans are secretly creating WiFi
networks, exchanges to TV programs per USB stick (the "paquetes"),
punching holes in Cuba's network to create "flash" file exchange
servers, unblocking server ports to create VOIP access, with family
members abroad setting up freedom servers that allow rapid Internet
access using low bandwidth access from Cuba, .... all secretly.
The US acted like any Cuban that want to access information. They just
had more means than most people.
Note that the Cubvan regime never acted against ZunZuneo while operating
and didn't see it as a threat. Now they just use it for propaganda.
We who know what goes on in Cuba to break the Cuban information blockade
know that all has to be done secretly as all is disallowed except for
the foreigners with lots of dollars - you by your own admission - and
the elite.
You are a hypocrite that wants to deny Cubans what he wants for himself.
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-07 11:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Dear Verdad

Well I wouldn't go so far as calling myself a hypocrite but I can tell you
the dangers to youth created by freedom of information.

Television in Canada for instance is nothing more than a mechanism to poison
our minds with advertising. The internet poisoned us even further but the
ability to communicate with love ones is I think a necessity of life. Nobody
sends an envelope anymore I too think the government of Cuba needs to get
their collective heads out of their asses and open the information highway
to everyone. The problem isn't really the sending of messages, but rather
the use of subversive activity to create civil unrest, not only in Cuba but
any country that does not conform to the hegemonic foreign policy of the
United States.

You think that Big Brother here in Cuba has too tight a rein on everything
but Big Brother here is Little Brother when standing next to your own
government. The media in the US is controlled, your phones and messaging are
captured for uses we don't even want to know about, freedom of speech and
the right to assembly used to be your divine right but they are slowly being
eroded.

You know there are homes in Canada that to this day do not have a computer,
do not have internet, do not have cable TV, some by financial circumstance,
some by choice and some people eat steak and others eat pork chops again by
financial circumstance or by choice.

The same goes for Cuba. Those with the financial means get, those without
don't. Life is just like that and it doesn't matter if you live in a
Capitalist or Socialist country.

I agree with you that a text message is not going to install Capitalism or
overthrow the government of Cuba but the US has no business interfering in
the affairs of other countries. It is against the UN charter and
international law but unless all the other boys in the playground gang up on
the playground bully (it will happen), every means to create civil unrest
will be used. If Cuba didn't have anything worth taking, we would have been
left alone.

Giovanni
Cubaverdad
2014-04-07 12:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Dear Verdad
Well I wouldn't go so far as calling myself a hypocrite but I can tell you
the dangers to youth created by freedom of information.
The are dwarfed by the danger of not having freedom of information.
that results in dogmatically impaired uninformed people.
It creates an environment for repression, indoctrination and
dictatorship. Stop trying to decide for others while reserving the right
to freedom of expression and information for yourself.
Cubans are entitled to information to make up their own minds with a
full set of information. they don't need you or the Castro's to decide
what they are allowed to see and know.
Post by The Razor's Edge
The same goes for Cuba. Those with the financial means get, those without
don't.
No. the same does not go for Cuba. Access to "financial means" is more
widespread in Canada than in Cuba. People in Cuba generally can afford
food, access to information (internet, cell phones, ..), cars, ...
In Cuba only the elite and those that get remittances can have access to
some or all of the above.
Post by The Razor's Edge
I agree with you that a text message is not going to install Capitalism or
overthrow the government of Cuba but the US has no business interfering in
the affairs of other countries.
but you disagree that we all should break the information blockade of
the Cuban regime to allow Cubans access to information.
Like the struggle against the race policies of Hitler, the concentration
camps of the Nazis, the Gulag in Russia, the dictatorial regimes in
Eastern Europe, the killing fields of Cambodia, the UMAP and the
repression in Cuba: it is our duty to "interfere" with those that
create, support and maintain them. It is part of our human dignity to
speak out and support those that are repressed.
You want to silence all while reserving for yourself the right to speak.
I want all - including you - to be able to speak freely.
that sets us apart.
Cubaverdad
2014-04-08 09:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
ZunZuneo, USAID
MIAMI HERALD | EDITORIAL

The buzz in Cuba
OUR OPINION:
***@MIAMIHERALD.COM

The Obama administration’s recently exposed program to provide a
text-messaging service for ordinary citizens in Cuba is a commendable
effort to break the Castro government’s information monopoly. We hope
they don’t quit trying.

Critics of the program like Sen. Patrick J. Leahy, D-Vt., called it
“dumb, dumb, dumb” as soon as the Associated Press published a report
last week on the short-lived Twitter-like program that ran out of
funding in 2012. What would be really dumb, though, is to sit back
silently and do nothing while Cuba’s 11 million people are kept from
hearing or reading any information except what bears the government’s
stamp of approval.

Keep in mind that among the most successful programs of the Cold War
were those like Radio Free Europe and communications support for groups
like Solidarity in Poland that gave citizens of Soviet bloc countries
vital information they could not get elsewhere.

These programs managed to foil the embargo on truth maintained by the
communist dictatorships of Eastern Europe and weakened the authoritarian
governments propped up by the Red Army. They paved the way for the
dissolution of the Iron Curtain and the rise of civil societies capable
of nurturing democracy.

The Cold War may be over, but in Cuba an aging dictatorship spawned at
the height of East/West tensions still employs the same tactics of that
era to keep its people in the dark and under control. If it was
unacceptable in Eastern Europe, it’s unacceptable in Cuba, as well.

And if this country took the lead in overcoming the information barriers
created by the communist dictatorships of that era, why should it
refrain from devising effective programs to do the same against the
Castro regime?

Created in 2009, the program called ZunZuneo, a Cuban word mimicking the
buzz of a hummingbird, allowed some 40,000 Cubans, mostly young and
tech-savvy, to communicate with each other using the government’s own
cellphone network.

U.S. sponsorship of the program was kept secret for obvious reasons, but
that does not discredit the program itself or its goals — to allow the
Cuban people to communicate with each other without government interference.

Sen. Leahy may be right in saying that placing the program under the
auspices of the Agency for International Development (USAID) was wrong.
That compromises USAID’s mission and supplies ammunition for critics of
the agency’s many other admirable efforts to promote democracy and human
rights around the globe, including in Cuba.

It also allows the Cuban government to draw inaccurate connections
between this “clandestine” effort and the plight of USAID contractor
Alan Gross, who remains in jail for delivering banned communications
equipment to Cuba’s tiny Jewish community.

A Senate panel is slated to examine the propriety of USAID’s role in
this case on Tuesday. Members of the panel should not lose sight of who
bears responsibility for restricting the free flow of information in
Cuba. The villain in this scenario is an authoritarian and paranoid
gerontocracy afraid of its own people and unwilling to let them
communicate with each other — in print, by electronic media, or in
cyberspace.

The government fears the means of communication used by young people the
world over. They will continue to close the doors of information, but
they are unlikely to stop new forms of communication trying to fill the
vacancy left by ZunZuneo.

Source: The buzz in Cuba - Editorials - MiamiHerald.com -
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/07/4045448/the-buzz-in-cuba.html
Post by The Razor's Edge
low Victor Salcedo on Twitter: www.twitter.com/OdeclasV
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-09 11:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Dear Verdad;

I am not really disagreeing with you but revolution must come from within.
The world, under the United Nations makes it illegal to interfeer in the
politics and internal affairs of other countries.

Do you think that Cuba would be better or worse if the multinationals of the
world stripped Cuba and Cubans of their identity, of their resources, of
their dignity.

Consider this.

You are in your living room arguing with your wife, telling her that you do
not want her or your children watching a certain television program because
it is against your religious believes or you do not want her viewing certain
content on the internet because it is poisoning the mind of your young
daughter. Your next door neighbor hears the commotion and barges into your
home and slaps you, then herds you into your bedroom and sets up camp in
your living room. He abuses your family, rapes your daughter and steals all
your food and valuables. You ask him to go but he won't and you call upon
the neighbors and they won't do anything because they are afraid of the
person in your home and don't want it to happen to them. The entire
neighborhood begs you to leave but you won't. The police won't do anything
either because they say it is an internal domestic issue and you need to
just do what your neighbor says and all will be well. In the meantime of
course he is destroying your home, depleting all your food and other
household resources and continues to abuse your family. After there is no
more food in the house and he tires of abusing you he leaves but your life
has been shattered, your home is unlivable and your family are traumatized
to the point that the family unit no longer functions.

Now replace your neighbor with US foreign policy.
PL
2014-04-09 14:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Dear Verdad;
I am not really disagreeing with you but revolution must come from within.
(snip)

and therefore both internal and external communication and information
as this program tried to promote are primordial.
Uninformed citizens are true citizens. Cuba uses disinformation and an
"information blockade" as weapons against the the Cuban people.
The are thought to read, but then are prohibited from reading any "non
approved" information.
Information is for the masses, not for the elite.
The Cuban regime starves the masses of information reserving the
"forbidden knowledge" for the elite.
The national library in Havana used to have a room called "el
infernillo" where the books were stored from authors prohibited to the
people and available to the elite. Books by Cabrera Infante ended up
there. Other books were burned or buried (like the Nazis did).
The regime denies the people information. Even if they would genuinely
support the regime - which most don't - it isn't informed consent.
That consent is therefore invalid. The regime therefore is illegitimate
and has no democratic basis.
Any means of providing additional information is therefore welcome to
those that have the interest of the Cuban people at heart and is an
"abomination" only to those that support the dictatorship.
G.J. Overtveld
2014-04-09 20:01:13 UTC
Permalink
It costs about 150 $ to condition ONE existing TeLline for DSL Hhigh
Speed iNternet connection..)
At subscribr locationend of that line,ONe router (25$) can distribute
that internet signal as a Wi-Fi signal to ALL the tenants (typically
50 )residing in one of those characteristic Rusian designed apartment
buldings found all all over Cuba..

In other words, at a very low cost, internet access could be poviided
to a total Etecsa tel subscriber base of 50X existing tel
lines..!!!!!!!!!!!

The outragious long distane tel and long distance phone and internet
rates.. receivd in divisa charged and received should b e used for
funding this instead of being absorbed by CubanGovt ,

More finncing could be available from residents of building in small
monthly amounts.. phaps the local CDR could collect this..
Propose this idea to Cuban Gov't to call their bluf on their claim
"They would like to povide internet to al Cubans.."

Gilles J (jjoe) Overtveld Canada..
P.S.S imilar srvice already providd by TEKSAVVY.com in Canada
Ottawa..
Post by PL
Post by The Razor's Edge
Dear Verdad;
I am not really disagreeing with you but revolution must come from within.
(snip)
and therefore both internal and external communication and information
as this program tried to promote are primordial.
Uninformed citizens are true citizens. Cuba uses disinformation and an
"information blockade" as weapons against the the Cuban people.
The are thought to read, but then are prohibited from reading any "non
approved" information.
Information is for the masses, not for the elite.
The Cuban regime starves the masses of information reserving the
"forbidden knowledge" for the elite.
The national library in Havana used to have a room called "el
infernillo" where the books were stored from authors prohibited to the
people and available to the elite. Books by Cabrera Infante ended up
there. Other books were burned or buried (like the Nazis did).
The regime denies the people information. Even if they would genuinely
support the regime - which most don't - it isn't informed consent.
That consent is therefore invalid. The regime therefore is illegitimate
and has no democratic basis.
Any means of providing additional information is therefore welcome to
those that have the interest of the Cuban people at heart and is an
"abomination" only to those that support the dictatorship.
Cubaverdad
2014-04-10 10:24:11 UTC
Permalink
On 4/9/2014 10:01 PM, G.J. Overtveld wrote:

Forget the phone lines and go to satellite. If Cuba allowed satellite
connections with equipment starting from below 200 dollars (good one)
and access from $40 a month.
Speeds up to 12Mbps
http://www.bestsatelliteproviders.com/satellite-internet-providers/
Post by G.J. Overtveld
It costs about 150 $ to condition ONE existing TeLline for DSL Hhigh
Speed iNternet connection..)
At subscribr locationend of that line,ONe router (25$) can distribute
that internet signal as a Wi-Fi signal to ALL the tenants (typically
50 )residing in one of those characteristic Rusian designed apartment
buldings found all all over Cuba..
In other words, at a very low cost, internet access could be poviided
to a total Etecsa tel subscriber base of 50X existing tel
lines..!!!!!!!!!!!
The outragious long distane tel and long distance phone and internet
rates.. receivd in divisa charged and received should b e used for
funding this instead of being absorbed by CubanGovt ,
More finncing could be available from residents of building in small
monthly amounts.. phaps the local CDR could collect this..
Propose this idea to Cuban Gov't to call their bluf on their claim
"They would like to povide internet to al Cubans.."
Gilles J (jjoe) Overtveld Canada..
P.S.S imilar srvice already providd by TEKSAVVY.com in Canada
Ottawa..
Post by PL
Post by The Razor's Edge
Dear Verdad;
I am not really disagreeing with you but revolution must come from within.
(snip)
and therefore both internal and external communication and information
as this program tried to promote are primordial.
Uninformed citizens are true citizens. Cuba uses disinformation and an
"information blockade" as weapons against the the Cuban people.
The are thought to read, but then are prohibited from reading any "non
approved" information.
Information is for the masses, not for the elite.
The Cuban regime starves the masses of information reserving the
"forbidden knowledge" for the elite.
The national library in Havana used to have a room called "el
infernillo" where the books were stored from authors prohibited to the
people and available to the elite. Books by Cabrera Infante ended up
there. Other books were burned or buried (like the Nazis did).
The regime denies the people information. Even if they would genuinely
support the regime - which most don't - it isn't informed consent.
That consent is therefore invalid. The regime therefore is illegitimate
and has no democratic basis.
Any means of providing additional information is therefore welcome to
those that have the interest of the Cuban people at heart and is an
"abomination" only to those that support the dictatorship.
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-10 10:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Just in case you were in the bathroom, Cuba is socialist democracy. Sure the
Castro's have been the driver for the last 53 years but the passengers all
have a say in which direction the car goes.

Cuba's government and internal affairs should be left to Cubans and the US
foreign policy has no place in trying to undermine any countries internal
political structure just because it doesn't meet with US approval. It is
against UN and international law. The bully in the playground wants all the
candy and is willing to beat you up if you don't give it to him.

Bandwidth is bandwidth and coming soon to a neighbor near you will be
digital TV and internet access.
Cubaverdad
2014-04-10 10:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Just in case you were in the bathroom, Cuba is socialist democracy.
Cuba is a Stalinist country.
Post by The Razor's Edge
Sure the
Castro's have been the driver for the last 53 years but the passengers all
have a say in which direction the car goes.
a lie.
There is no freedom of speech and there are no free and fair elections.
The Castro's are firmly in the drivers' seat and the rest is just along
for the ride - in the trunk.
Post by The Razor's Edge
Cuba's government and internal affairs should be left to Cubans
and all Cubans should be free to select and elect the leaders they want.
Helping to achieve that by improving communication is a good thing.
The Razor's Edge
2014-04-10 10:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Come on NoSPam;

That was 50 years ago. All the employees in all the factories and stores
that have computers and most do, all have access to the internet. My
neighbor works for Acinox and he downloaded the IPod update for me because
he has a really fast connection at the office.

There is no information blockade in Cuba. However I agree with whomever
makes the rules because the internet is a dangerous, poisonous place for
children.

Nobody is starving for information and I for one need to watch a Cathy
Rigbey tampon commercial during my movie like I need an asshole under my
armpit. Yahoo, no commercials on our TV.

I am a Canadian, retired here and in the past 8 years have come to know a
significant number of people and have many friends in high places (not
elite) and they are all very well educated about worldly things.
PL
2014-04-10 14:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Razor's Edge
Come on NoSPam;
That was 50 years ago.
Nope this is now.
Post by The Razor's Edge
All the employees in all the factories and stores
that have computers and most do, all have access to the internet.
a blatant lie. Very few have access even to the intranet
Post by The Razor's Edge
My
neighbor works for Acinox and he downloaded the IPod update for me because
he has a really fast connection at the office.
then he is the exception. I was talking about the rule
Post by The Razor's Edge
There is no information blockade in Cuba.
Yes there is. Satellites are forbidden. No international TV and Radio
channels are available (except TV Chavez). Transmissions from the USA
are blocked. No free press is allowed. Independent journalists are
persecuted. Even where Internet is available access to lots of sites is
blocked. Wikipedia isn't allowed (a lying local version created).
Post by The Razor's Edge
However I agree with whomever
makes the rules because the internet is a dangerous, poisonous place for
children.
So you feel that all Cubans, young and old, should be treated like
ignorant children by the "benevolent Castro parents". Preposterous.
Post by The Razor's Edge
Nobody is starving for information
Yes they are. The love the USB sticks filled with programs from abroad
and lots would love to go on Internet freely.
You are insincere all the way
Stop treating the Cuban people as ignorant and not being able to make up
their own mind.
G.J. Overtveld
2014-04-10 19:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by The Razor's Edge
Dear Verdad;
I am not really disagreeing with you but revolution must come from within.
(snip)
and therefore both internal and external communication and information
as this program tried to promote are primordial.
Uninformed citizens are true citizens. Cuba uses disinformation and an
"information blockade" as weapons against the the Cuban people.
The are thought to read, but then are prohibited from reading any "non
approved" information.
Information is for the masses, not for the elite.
The Cuban regime starves the masses of information reserving the
"forbidden knowledge" for the elite.
The national library in Havana used to have a room called "el
infernillo" where the books were stored from authors prohibited to the
people and available to the elite. Books by Cabrera Infante ended up
there. Other books were burned or buried (like the Nazis did).
The regime denies the people information. Even if they would genuinely
support the regime - which most don't - it isn't informed consent.
That consent is therefore invalid. The regime therefore is illegitimate
and has no democratic basis.
Any means of providing additional information is therefore welcome to
those that have the interest of the Cuban people at heart and is an
"abomination" only to those that support the dictatorship.
Providing Internet access to 50X existing landlines in Cub..
Here in Canada I subscribe t “TEKSAVVY” providing high Speed access
via condiotioned Existing Bell Telephone lines..
Cost to me 35 $/month .that is Internet access AND telephone at
10$/month..
Condiotioned dry-loop is called comdiotioned Tel line..cost 5
dollar/month..calculting the cost back to Bell it costs them 200 $ to
condition, non-used obsolete tllins already installed.
In Cuba Etecsa could condition all exitring subscriber lines... Etecsa
coud udse evenue form thei absorbent rates in divisa to fund that..
Example one resident in the typical Rusian designe apat buildings so
prevalent in Cuba. Could ask for DSL access from existing phone line.
Connect this to a router (25$) didstribute Wi-FI acess to all other
tenenasas (estimatd 40 residents..Additional funding could be providd
a few pesos per month charged for WI-Fi service paid by ech resident
in the building. Services available. Lowe cost internet acces
including Twitter, er-mail, radio, cel phone, landline etc.
IN other words providd access to 40 existing phone lines.. Call Cuba
Govt’s bluff, which pretends to like to provide to all citicenn’s ,
that’s the simle answer to ZnZumbe.. give access to Internet.. nd it
is fesible with little mony.. tke this suggestion and run way with it

Gilles J Overtveld P.Eng. Ottawa Canada..


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